When we first looked at the surveillance footage, we were stunned.

He was the Hungarian ambassador to Brazil who walked nervously through the embassy. There was Jair Bolsonaro, the former president of Brazil – who recently received a court order not to leave the country intensive criminal investigation — coming to the gate. Embassy staff raced to the guest quarters with sheets and a coffee maker.

And then, for two days, there was Mr. Bolsonaro wandering around the parking lot, looking bored, and there were his security guards bringing pizza.

Given the circumstances – a politician facing potential jail time sleeping in a foreign embassy controlled by a political ally – it had all the hallmarks of a man seeking political asylum. Foreign embassies can be considered sovereign territory and have historically been used as refuges for people escaping detention.

Colleagues and I published an article about it, along with clips from the recording.

In response, Mr Bolsonaro’s lawyers issued a statement saying he had only gone to the embassy to discuss politics. Any other suggestion, they said, was “fake news.”

Alexandre de Moraes, leading judge of the Brazilian Supreme Court extensive criminal investigations in the former president, he later decided that Mr. Bolsonaro he did not break the law sleeping in the embassy.

So when I sat down with Mr. Bolsonaro for an interview this weekimpatiently, I finally asked him why – in the middle of the Brazilian carnival, four days after the police confiscated his passport – he decided to spend the night in the small guest room of the Hungarian embassy.

This is an excerpt from our exchange, translated from Portuguese and edited for clarity.

Why did you sleep in the Hungarian embassy for two nights?

Look, it was a matter of time zones who I was talking to. And that is final.

But you slept there for two nights?

That.

Is this normal?

That’s up to me to decide.

Don’t have a bed in Brasília? (Brasília is the capital of Brazil.)

I know. I could have argued with my wife. I’m not saying. Just like when I talk to the authorities, I don’t say I am. Nothing is leaking from me. Zero.

Have you slept in another embassy?

who knows. I am friends with Israel. I agree with the countries of the Arab world. I won’t say what I do because it gives them a narrative to chase. I am a free citizen.

A team of Alexandre de Moraes he wanted to arrest me because I left without a passport. You do not need a passport to enter the embassy.

You are a private citizen. You are also a former president who speaks about the importance of truth. So it’s only natural to want to understand why you slept in a foreign embassy four days after the authorities searched your home.

They could have arrested me during the search if they wanted to. All I do is try to hide from them. Was it a haven? Asylum? As for asylum, you are dealing directly with the president.

Was it an asylum offer? It seems strange to sleep in an embassy.

Isn’t it strange that they are chasing me? Anything I would say, the other side might turn on me. I met with (Hungarian President Viktor Orbán) in Argentina at the inauguration of (President Javier) Milei. I get along well with him.

What I did was not a crime. If there had been a crime, I would have been arrested.

(Embassy surveillance also showed the person visiting Mr. Bolsonaro for 38 minutes. Brazilian news outlet later reported it was his son, Carlos. Carlos was in the room with us.)

Carlos, you visited your father, didn’t you? What happened?

Carlos Bolsonaro: I was just talking to my father about…

(A lawyer in the room interrupts to ask to speak off the record.)

Jair Bolsonaro: Do you think I would have a problem leaving Brazil now? Without a passport? Aren’t tons of illegal immigrants going to the United States? I am an army captain. I’m used to the difficulties out there.

ALL RIGHT. So why were you at the embassy?

who knows. Maybe I have a lover there.

I’m not trying to be difficult, but I care about the truth, and you say so. Well, I just want to understand.

That’s the secret. Maybe one day you’ll find out.